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Some notes on John B. Alexander’s interview with John Greenewald on the Black Vault Radio, July 18th, 2018

Posted On By skvaller

John B. Alexander talks about his time running the ATP project, a secret program with the same informal, low profile structure as AATIP.

Listen to the interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQvB4CWGcWg

The notes:

  • As a Colonel, John Alexander would get informal groups of people together to study different issues related to phenomenology. Without expanding, he explained that they found that the conclusions they reached were always very different from what they expected going in.
  • Later on, he joined Bigelow as the first member of NIDS, an organization strongly focused on studying the UFO phenomenon.
  • He talks about a personal UFO experience he had in the company of Chris Bledsoe "a couple of years ago." He had interviewed him for his book, Reality Denied, and was looking at different aspects of the phenomenon besides UFOs: missing time, spontaneous healing, interactions with sentient beings of some kind…
  • In that experience, Chris Bledsoe stopped, said "I think they're here," and suddenly, an object zoomed past them, as if he was able to sense or predict that the object would appear.
  • He called the phenomenon at Skinwalker Ranch the "PSP," for Precognitive Sentient Phenomenon. The PSP knew how scientists would respond to its manifestations. It's sentient, smart and curious. Behaves like a trickster.
  • For example, they would set up 24/7 timelapse cameras outside to monitor the Ranch, and they would capture the phenomenon doing something. They would then move the camera to better capture that kind of image, and the phenomenon would do something completely different, often halfway outside the frame of the camera. It would react to being noticed.
  • He says he never had any effects after encountering the phenomenon, but Eric Davis seemed to be "more sensitive to it."
  • He then describes a story already told by George Knapp about one of the giant bulletproof wolves seen by Terry Sherman, past owner of the Ranch. The wolf attacked a young calf, so Terry shot 6 .238 rifle rounds at it at point blank, merely causing it to flee. It left a chunk of flesh on the ground that, oddly enough, smelled putrefied.
  • He then describes a cattle mutilation incident, also previously talked about by Knapp. Terry Sherman said it seemed to happen to his most expensive animals. This particular incident happened to a calf that was found dead 45 minutes after it was last seen. It was completely eviscerated and exsanguinated. The ear with the tag was missing. In total, about 20 lbs of material were missing (1/3 of its weight). A bone was taken out and had some nicks on it. There was absolutely no blood around the carcass.
  • They did a test with cow's blood to see if it could have seeped into the ground, and concluded that it hadn't, it was simply missing. The case was reported by George Knapp and studied by various people, and no explanation was ever found.
  • In another cattle mutilation incident, the cow had a puncture wound that went straight to the heart, and although the pericardium (membrane around the heart) was intact, the heart itself was pulverized. He says he had no idea how you could physically do that.
  • Talking about the phenomenon, they would try to provoke "it" by doing things like tearing up the ground with excavators or putting toys on the ground and seeing if they got moved.
  • When asked if he has a theory of what "it" is, he simply answers "no." He says it's perplexing because many different things happen, and the UFO phenomenon is just one of them, but the phenomenon as a whole is much more complex than we can imagine.
  • Activity at the Ranch did not stop, but Robert Bigelow nevertheless decided to sell it and put his energy into Bigelow Aerospace. Alexander mentions having had lunch with Bigelow earlier that week (Interview was recorded Friday July 13th), and he says he believes Bigelow will make an announcement soon that "will change things considerably." "Just amazing science and engineering is going on." "It has to do with a contract that they now have with NASA, and it is putting people in space."
  • He believes the evidence we have that the UFO phenomenon is a real physical phenomenon is overwhelming. He mentions detections made by advanced sensors of craft with capabilities that are beyond what humans can produce.
  • To him, materialism is hindering science, because most doctors are not willing to even consider some of the possibilities.
  • John Alexander says he always thought we were on the cusp of some big revelations, but they didn't happen because everyone is waiting for a magic bullet. Disclosure has actually happened, but people refuse to acknowledge it because the collective belief system is actually that such things do not exist, and it's been a very difficult obstacle to overcome.
  • He criticizes people for not wanting disclosure, but rather demanding confirmation of their belief system (e.g. wanting to be told the ETH is true and nothing else).
  • He believes to manage the "multiple phenomena" issue, we need something like the Human Genome Project, which cost $3 billion and took 9 years. Multiple countries and universities were exchanging information. The problem is probably orders of magnitude more complex data-wise, so he estimates it would cost upwards of $300 billion to study. He's pessimistic about it actually happening because of the price tag.
  • He says globally, the funding for research into phenomena is around $10 million a year. Most of it is private funding. By comparison, we put $17 billion into the LHC and it costs about $1 billion a year. He seems to be critical of the decision to humor this belief system that involves searching for the truth by discovering smaller and smaller particles.
  • The problem when studying phenomena is there is no sharing of information. The funding levels are low, so people jealously guard their resources.
  • He believes phenomenology is looking at things that would merit funding because they impact 100% of the population, particularly the topic of the continuation of consciousness beyond physical death. He feels that how we spend our money is not commensurate with the demand. The discoveries of the LHC, for instance, are of interest to a handful of theoretical physicists, and a small fraction of the population who understands it. But "Is there life after death?" is something that 100% of the population is concerned with, and yet there's no funding going into researching it.
  • The topic shifts to the ATP (Advanced Theoretical Physics) project. John Alexander explains that they decided to name it that to make the program look inconspicuous, ensuring that no one would have an interest in making a FOIA request. There was also a rule to never have any written correspondence. Participants were from different military services, from the intelligence community as well as from aerospace companies. The participants had to have an SCI (Sensitive Compartmented Information) clearance to work in the project. The project went on for several years.
  • As an example, he says they would start off by assuming a case like Roswell was real, so they would go around and try to figure out who was responsible for information about that. What they found was similar to what "the most recent program" (AATIP) also found, which is that no one's actually in charge, and everyone assumes someone else is already doing it. The bottom line was that there was no one in charge.
  • He says for this information to get out, you essentially need people like him and Lue to facilitate declassification and take the information out. He also says that in his experience, 98% of the classified information does not make it past the declassification process, and generally, the parts that are declassified are things that are already in the public domain. Anything that could reveal capabilities, like satellite imagery, doesn't get published.
  • ATP started in 1984. He reluctantly retired in 1988, but the project continued on a "personality-dependent" basis. He was able to get the group back together later after he went to Los Alamos National Laboratory. (Seems this could have been anywhere between 1989 and 2003)
  • John Alexander confirmed that they were actively (but legally) circumventing FOIA.
  • The group started as an ad-hoc gathering. He says he went up through higher and higher levels of people, such as directors of 3-letter agencies.
  • He says most people he talked to were interested. The only exception was Walter B. Laberge, who was briefed with a group of engineers by Alexander, and who was ideologically opposed to the research because "it's what you're only supposed to learn when you die."
  • He also mentions a general who was opposed to a remote viewing program because he considered it demonic.
  • This is a pitfall of this kind of program. Programs that are "personality-dependent" like AATIP are influenced both by the people inside the program and by external people who get briefed on the program. Typically, external people were briefed in order to get help get access to funding and information.
  • He talks about the Strategic Defense Initiative/Star Wars program. He briefed the 3-star Air Force general at the head of SDI (Abrahamson). The point was to ask him for funding for their UFO activities. He said he couldn't offer funding or touch the program, but he offered to track objects for them, if they would tell him how to set up his algorithms, but he said he could risk losing funding if someone finds out. It turns out this actually happened, and was used to tarnish the reputation of the general as a steward of public funds, contributing in part to the eventual shutdown of SDI and the loss of $1 billion in funding.
  • He confirms that ATP and AATIP are the same thing, and had to resort to the same kinds of funding tricks to remain alive.
  • He surmises that the reason Elizondo got funded is because they weren't asking for too much. The remote viewing program had a similar funding level of about $20 million. In the grand scheme of DoD funding, this is "lunch money."
  • The need for secrecy drives the need to keep expenditures low, because the higher the funding level, the more reporting you have to do. Additionally, the higher rungs of the institution are less likely to want their name associated with these types of studies.
  • AATIP made a successful funding request at one point, but as Elizondo said, the funds were diverted to another department because the wording on the request was too vague, and another department was able to argue that the funding should go to them.
  • He doesn't agree with calling the UFO phenomenon a threat. He says when you're in the DoD and you need to study UFOs, you have to describe them as threats to justify studying them, but he believes that the level of study that is done of the phenomenon needs to be much higher. He acknowledges that it's difficult to justify the expense when there's no guarantees on the return.
  • He criticizes studies like Condon, that stopped at "Is this a threat?" but dismissed the study of the phenomenon as having no scientific value.
  • The government is actually very well equipped to study the phenomenon, but their propensity for excessive secrecy is detrimental. Also, there's no requirement for the government to confirm a belief system. But it is a responsibility that humanity has towards itself.

Past posts:

Some notes on Tom Dâ„®longe's interview on Coast to Coast AM with Linda Moulton Howe, May 26th, 2016

Some notes on Tom Delonge's interview with Joe Rogan, October 26th, 2017

Some notes on Tom Delonge's interview with Jimmy Church on Fade to Black, August 30th, 2016

Some notes on Luis Elizondo's interview with George Knapp on C2C, July 15th, 2018

Some notes on Tom Delonge's March 27th, 2016 interview with George Knapp on Coast to Coast AM

Some notes on Tom Delonge's Feb 26 2017 interview with George Knapp

Notes on Eric Davis's June 24th appearance on Coast to Coast AM

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